devo's volleyball – Australian volleyball: news and views

Draws for AJVC

Posted by devo on June 25, 2009

AJVC_2009The draws for the Australian Junior Volleyball Championships to be played in Brisbane from July 5 – 11 are now on the AJVC page at Volleyball Australia

UPDATE: The updated draw is now available

24 Responses to “Draws for AJVC”

  1. Batesy said

    Which one of the Queensland/WA teams is their ‘A’ team?
    Is it Maroon or White for QLD? Gold or Black for WA?

  2. Paul Prindiville said

    Our top teams are black.

  3. devo said

    The Vic teams are Blue

  4. Murph said

    SA’s top team is called South Australia…

    Just how it’s meant to be!

    • Michael said

      “Just how it’s meant to be!”

      I dont get it what does that mean.

      • Murph said

        Just how it’s meant to be…

        A state sends their best team to the national championships…

        • Michael said

          what good does it do our sport to send only one team if you have more than one capable of winning. How does this help it grow? Sounds pretty elitest to me. I say we should hold state qualifiers in each state and every junior club, high school, state team, rec team they should all enter and the top three at each state qualifier gets to go to nationals. You can even enter a tournament in another state if you want to travel. then all the registration of junior players and proceeds from tournaments can fund our national team programs.. At nationals we can have coaching clinics put on by the national team coaches, clinics, drill sessions, referee courses the whole nine. Make it a huge thing to educate all coaches around the country. They should do it at national schools cup also.

          • devo said

            with all due repect Michael, this shows a lack of understanding of the Junior Tournaments in this country. Happy to discuss this further at volleyball sometime.
            1. there is a place for elitist sport.
            2. the biggest cost of sport here in Aus is the travel component
            3. most juniors get caught in the registration net via schools cup
            4. at tournaments most coaches are too busy, exhausted to do extra activities.
            5. have you been to a national schools cup event yet?

          • Murph said

            So long as it is the Australian Junior Volleyball Championships, the goal or each state should be to win with their best team. Having multiple teams dilutes the competition and turns it into participation…BUT it doesn’t make it TOTALLY participation…

            AJVC has become a bit like a luke-warm coffee…You only really drink it cos it’s the only way to get your kick, not because you actually like it.

            AJVC should be a 10 team draw, one team from each state plus NZ, PLUS a second team from the highest ranking team from the year before. Yes, that goes against what I have said before, but realistically, QLD 2, and to a lesser extend VIC 2, are competitive with all the other teams out there, and so are realistic medal chances. In the event that NT doesn’t enter a team (probable for now) then another 2nd team can enter.

            17s – 10 team
            2nd Team

            19s will be the top team from each state
            21s will be the top team from each state

            I think splitting the competition into single age groups in different centers will be a negative move… I think we need to make sure that under 17 players have the chance to watch their 21s and 19s teams, so they can get inspired to develop their games. I think we will lose a number of players if we put division 2 in regional Queensland, surely that isolation (both as a competition and geographically) will take the gloss off making a state team and playing in a national championships.

            Finally, I think we have a marketable product in the AJVC, as with any junior competition it isn’t going to be a huge commercial success, but when volleyball becomes an attractive option, then the AJVC will follow.

  5. Eldo said

    Let us hope this is the last time we have a national juniors like this one.
    In the 90’s we combined all the age groups for the sponsors $’s.
    They all used to be separate and in different states and at different times of the year.
    (What a poor idea that was and, I was part of that decision making commission – Sorry but we were told by marketing companies that we had a marketable product – WRONG)

    SUGGEST: Under 17’s – Use 2 Division model Division 1 (in Brisbane )
    Division 2 (in Regional Qld)
    Under 19’s – Use 2 Division model Division 1 (In Melbourne)
    Division 2 (in Regional Vic)
    Under 21 – One Division model (in Perth or regional WA)

    Still could be at the same time of the year.
    Smaller, leaner and cheaper for the kids.
    More publicity especially in regional centres.

    What do you think?

    • Paterico said

      I think it doesn’t hurt to try new models to see if they work. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. It is especially appealing to me if it lowers cost structure and brings some of these kids back in that have the talent but not the finances to play at this level.

      • sam said

        Paterico i see where you are coming from but i disagree.
        I have only ever been to the AJVC once before and it was incredible at how there was so much support for each team from their state members. As a junior player watching the 21’s it was amazing and really one of the highlights of the event for myself. To break up all of the age groups and divisions would ruin the expeience and the atmosphere of the event. The atmosphere of the stadium is really what makes a tournament and to break up the event would really destroy the heart of the AJVC.

        • Eldo said

          Sam, I can see where you are comming from also, but the National Under 16’s work like this and I think it is the best event on the calendar for juniors.
          Still the more discussionthe better.

          • super captain cheese puffs!! said

            I’ve been to both as a competitor and national juniors is way better, in the quality of play and the atmosphere, being able to watch the 21’s and 19’s play, with their national youth, junior and senior players spread out between the states, its an awesome learning experience. maybe if we split up juniors, we should also split up schools cup, put all the different age groups in different states and play them at the same time, great idea… (not)

  6. Kris Loe said

    For your suggestion I see the smaller, but I don’t see the leaner and cheaper for the kids bit.
    What I see is that whatever developed resources the current AJVC format has are now going to be dispersed to smaller and in some sense, isolated, events.
    I say “Isolated” because there is no bond or link between the Juniors (players)that Sam suggests.
    To ensure that isolation don’t have the attached courses, clinics or forums that help may provide consistent development nationwide. This will also save money, for the event.
    I use the word resources to incorporate the Coaches and Referees that attend Juniors. These smaller events for Coaches will create a more intimate atmosphere within that age group, but what about the development of the individual coach who aspires to move on from U17 women to U21 women. Where is their exposure?? How do Coaches from differing age groups who have different experience or knowledge to share interact? Twitter??!!
    And what about the refereeing side of things? are they so bad at AJVC that we will have to move back to refereeing our own games or using just Local referees? As a coach, I want the best and most up-to-date referee for my kids, there are days I would mortgage my house to pay a good ref to be in the stand.
    I don’t get.
    I think regional centres are great!
    The hospitality they offer, the recognition and desire for sport, and the support/media they give to any junior event that comes to their town is warming. They offer more than the big cities where we end up lost and just part of the population.
    And with Paterico’s comment about lowering the cost structure and yours about making it cheaper for the kids, the only way I see that happening is a return to a less formal event where we all do own match duty (yes, even first referee), go back to billeting and take some of the gloss off the Championships.
    For some of these kids at juniors this is as close as they will get to atmosphere and format of a “large stage volleyball event”. Those selected to represent Australia, won’t look like deer in the headlights when they go to some tournament overseas.
    I don’t know Eldo, I don’t get it.
    Asking for a return to separate events but the only difference being that they are run at the same time?
    I think it will stretch our limited and time-deprived resources too much, and I feel like its a one-step forward, two-steps-back approach.

    • markleb said

      Lots to digest here…
      In elite v. participation, I will always go for an elite National Juniors. It should be difficult to make a team. It should be difficult to get on the court. It should be difficult to win.
      There are lots and lots of cost savings for players in smaller events compared to larger events. I can’t list them all. None of them have anything to do with referees, doing duty or billeting.
      I may be out of the loop here, but is it really the case that the only access people have to volleyball is AJVC? Are there really no other ways for players and coaches to be motivated to achieve the next level? Are there really no other ways for coaches to share information? If the answer to the any of those questions is yes, I would suggest that there are more problems in Australian volleyball than how to run a tournament. That would be a very serious situation. I hope it is not the case.
      And I don’t think this is actually related, but if international tournaments are the ‘large scale volleyball tournaments’ to which you are referring, AJVC has the opposite atmosphere. International tournaments have one court with all eyes are on the participants of that one game.

      • Christian Stapff said

        What a great discussion by volleyball people!

        As a volleyball community we need to ask ourselves a few questions like:

        1)What purpose does AJVC serve? Elite competition? broad-based development? can it serve both objectives? are the objectives mutually exclusive?

        2) Can we create a system which allows access–while reducing cost to the athletes and parents–to good coaching?

        3) Are we as coaches more content with the elite stream as it attracts more attention and resources?

        From a Canadian perspective, the development happens in zones in each province(=states in OZ), selection to provincial team and subsequent
        Canada Games, Western Canada Games takes about two months!

        The volleyball season runs like this:

        School volleyball Sept-Dec
        Club Volleyball Jan-May
        Provincial Team June/July
        Other rep teams mayover lap these seasons

        This annual schedule means selection down to twelve players is restricted to about two months of the year; this means late developing athletes can bridge the skill gap!

        On another note, Malcolm Gladwell’s book “Outliers” has a sobering section on who the athletes are that make it to the top. This has serious implication for our national teams.
        His argument–backed by evidence from Canadian Junior Hockey–is the most talented athletes are the oldest and hence more mature athletes; not the most talented athletes!

        His argument is: when you may be born, in relation to age group cutoffs , may be the determining factor whether you make it or not as an athlete.

        This may mean we de-select potentially talented but physically immature athletes and exclude them from necessary training and skill development. An unfortunate side effect of a age-group selection policy.

        What would AJVC look like if we had 3 or 4 cut-off’s in each age group rather than three teams per age group– that is March, July, October and December?

        Such an approach would give AJVC status as an elite competition as well as increasing opportunities for young immature athletes.

        However, at the end we must ask ourselves how much does it cost for athletes to stay in the sport?

        If the cost is too high we lose talented athletes or we never get them into volleyball because the cost is too high– a common lament her in Canada as well.

        The other important pillar is coaching we need to get the best coaches to be mentors, to share what they do to make players and teams better.

        my hope is some discussion will be about this as well

        • Alexis said

          Some good points Stapffy, just two quick notes:

          1 – having a neat volleyball season (school sept-dec etc) doesn’t necessarily mean an athlete has a seamless pathway, more often than not the ‘pathways’ are good for a diagram on paper but don’t work out in real life due to individual circumstances. We all need to be aware of this rather than assuming athletes are catered for throughout their development.

          2 – the ‘Relative Age Effect’ which Gladwell mentions in Outliers (and doesn’t actually prove the most talented miss out because they are less mature, it simply states that the successful ones are born early in the age cutoff period) is a really good new point. On the other hand, since our elite pathway largely involves height, you could argue that eventually once an athlete is tall enough they will get selected.

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